Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

dioxin
Beiträge: 12
Registriert: So 13. Nov 2011, 19:11

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von dioxin »

TheRealLife93 hat geschrieben: Mo 3. Jul 2023, 20:53
Iroh96 hat geschrieben: Mo 3. Jul 2023, 19:12 Da bin ich ganz deiner Meinung.
Bei Ben Klock hatte ich bei der Turmbühne sogar bei manchen Übergängen das Gefühl, dass der natürliche Anlagensound minimal verzerrt war und ein Knarzen herauszuhören war...
Dat lag wohl eher an Ben Clock. Hat auch in den Tracks teilweise gezerrt. Allgemein ist der Sound bei ihm ganz schön zusammengefallen fand ich. War aber auch nur 15 Minuten da. War mir zu lahm

Hatte keine Erwartungen und war trotzdem von Ben Klock enttäuscht. Samstag/Sonntag 0 Uhr wird auf der turmbühne normalerweise mit steigender Energie in die Nacht geleitet, aber dieses set hat mich direkt ins Zelt geführt. Klang musikalisch auch irgendwie in 2012 stecken geblieben… insgesamt fand ich nämlich sonst die Musik außergewöhnlich gut und sehr „fresh“, vorallem im leicht trancigen Techno Bereich (lampé u.a., oder letztes Jahr mama snake).
Deleted User 50886

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von Deleted User 50886 »

ich hätte nie gedacht dass ich das mal sage aber der bass an der tanzwüste war grenzwertig gefährlich :o
trotzdem klang alles glasklar!
leider war der bass so stark dass er die mitten und höhen teilweise verschluckt hat
die krasseste anlage die ich je gehört habe. ich glaube für das teil braucht man nen waffenschein
holterdipolter
Beiträge: 169
Registriert: So 7. Apr 2019, 05:49

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von holterdipolter »

Wenn auf dem Festival irgendein Bass einen Waffenschein braucht dann ist es die Rootsbase 8-)
flameijer
Beiträge: 20
Registriert: Do 7. Jul 2022, 22:19

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von flameijer »

@OP:

Thanks for creating this threat, I totally agree with you and I also made a threat about this last year in 2022 with the subject: 'Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back' viewtopic.php?t=38509&sid=b3bb973c696ed ... 94471f583b

I this threat I posted a letter which I've send to Kulturkosmos to raise awareness about the lack of bass on the Turmbühne and Tanzwuste in 2019 and 2022. Unfortunately I didn't got a reply back from Kulturkosmos but I did get a reply back from the founder of Funktion One, Tony Andrews.

He said: 'From our investigations it would appear that the rental company concerned, after I believe six successful years, was offered to match the low price of a competitor which they were not prepared to do as it would mean incurring a loss. Therefore it was about money'.

Luckily this year the bass on the Tanzwüste was great but still at the Turmbühne the sweet spot of the bass if just way to small. Only in front of the woofers you sometimes have a bass feeling.

The Funktion One system before 2019 was indeed from another league and just hope they will return in the future so that they again can hypnotize an entire dance floor of thousands of people and truly make them one with the music:)

PS, this is the letter which I send after the Fusion 2022 edition:

" Hi Fusionista's,

as an audiophile I deeply care about the sound experience at one of the biggest loves of my life: Fusion Festival. This is my letter to the Fusion Festival organizers in order to start a conversation about the sound system of their two largest dance floors: the famous and infamous Turmbühne and Tanzwüste. I decided to post this letter on this forum because I am very interested in your opinion and would like to start a conversation with you.

Here is the letter and I'm very looking forward to your reply:)

"To:
Martin Eulenhaupt
Kulturkosmos Müritz e.V.
Am Flugplatz 17248, Lärz, DEUTSCHLAND

Subject: Let’s talk about the sound system at Turmbühne & Tanzwüste


Dear Kulturkosmos, dear Martin, dear Eule,

Finally, after three years of unfulfilled desire to party, create and connect, the Fusion rocket has launched again. It’s hard to describe my feelings about the Fusion Festival of this year but if I could summarize it in one word then that would be mesmerizing. I would like to thank you and Kulturkosmos for organizing the Fusion again and putting all the love and effort into in. All the Kulturkosmos crew members and Fusion volunteers are a true inspiration.

Along with my words of gratitude, I'd like to bring something to your and the festival's attention. Therefore, I'd like to return to 2015, to my first Fusion Festival.

I remember it like it was yesterday. For the first time in my life, all five of my senses were intensely stimulated at the same time. My eyes were treated to the most insane stages, decoration, and art installations; I tasted the best vegetarian food; my nose enjoyed the smell of burning wood in the open fireplaces; my ears were treated to the best Berlin melodic techno; and my touch was intensely stimulated by the Funktion One sound system's bass. In this letter, I'd like to elaborate on the last one, which I believe has been deteriorating over the last two Fusions.

Like mentioned before, in 2015, I was astounded and impressed as I had never been before after hearing and feeling the first bass sound on the Turmbühne. I've been to many top-notch festivals, but nowhere else have I heard such audio pornography as at the Turmbühne (and later the Tanzwüste). Every single vein and cell in my body vibrated and the Funktion One sound system reminded me that my body is made up of 80% water.

A good quality sound system, in my opinion, combines two things: you must hear every detail of the music while also physically feeling it. Funktion One perfectly combines these two elements: crystal clear hearing and intense bass sensation. It is, in my opinion (maybe together with L’Acoustics), the only sound system that can hypnotize an entire dance floor of thousands of people and truly make them one with the music, rather than just the people in front of the speakers. The Funktion One sound system makes you feel and touch the music, vibrating and touching every cell in your body for the ultimate party experience. For this reason, the bass must fuck.

Unfortunately, I must conclude that the sound level at Fusion has become less intense since 2019 and that there is a significant lack of intense bass feeling around the dance floor when compared to the Funktion One sound system that I heard in 2015, 2016, and 2018. The D&B line array combined with the 32 Prior Sounds Single 18 subwoofers on the Tanzwüste this year sounded amazing, but it simply did not come close to the sound I heard on the Tankwüste in 2018 with the Funktion One 12x F221 8-ohm bass wall. But my main concern is with the Turmbühne because you can't feel the bass and can hear people's conversations even when standing in the sweet spot. The new dance arena with the tribunes looks amazing, but there was never a truly intense party going on, so I became curious as to why Fusion changed a winning team.

In order to obtain some answers, I started doing some research and learned that a different and less intense sound system/set-up was chosen at the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste to protect the Lärz neighbors and those camping near the stages. As a result, a Lambda Labs end fire cardiod subwoofer array was chosen this year at the Turmbühne. I understand the arguments for using such a system due to the noise pollution, but it is simply too quiet to hypnotize a full dance floor and lacks the bass feeling that I experienced with the Funktion One sound system set-up. The audio sweet spot on this system's set-up is simply too small, resulting in a less intense and crazy party on the dance floor where people go completely bananas. It just doesn't stimulate my touch sense as well as the Funktion One set-up, which I believe is required to achieve perfect harmony with all the other four senses that are superbly stimulated. It's that little difference from making the party from amazing to mesmerizing and then it's all about the little details. That eye for the smallest details for me makes Fusion Fusion.

With a heavy audiophile heart, I have to say that Fusion's position as Europe's best audio experience festival is in jeopardy as a result of this new sound approach. But I'd like to propose a solution in which it's safe and responsible to return to the Funktion One sound system. And that is to advise all Fusionista’s to wear ear protection while dancing and sleeping, and that Kulturkosmos should make it easy to purchase such ear protection throughout the venue.

Since I started going to Fusion, I've always worn earplugs while dancing and sleeping. I wear dB filter earplugs with a 15 to 25 decibels sound filter during dancing and while sleeping, I wear an Orophax earplug, which completely blocks out my hearing. I'm sure the Lambda Lab sound system at the Turmbühne sounds better without earplugs, but I think it's extremely irresponsible not to wear earplugs at Fusion Festival in general. Please see the following table of decibels versus the amount of time it takes to cause irreversible hearing damage if you do not wear ear protection:

92 dB: after 30 minutes hear damage
95 dB: after 15 minutes hear damage
100 dB: after 5 minutes hear damage
110 dB: direct hear damage
120 dB: direct hear damage

For reference, a heavy truck passing by is approximately 89 dB. The decibels level at music festivals in the Netherlands is allowed to go up to 103 dB. The Dutch government assumed hearing protection when developing this 103 dB standard. Because the Netherlands is so densely populated, noise pollution is common. Anything above 110 dB is therefore illegal. That is why, unlike Fusion, no Dutch festivals really generate that audio experience. As a result, I always travel to less densely populated countries, such as Germany, to attend techno festivals where decibel levels can reach around 115-120 dB.

My estimation is that the level at Fusion is around 110 dB. As a result, people should protect their hearing by wearing ear protection. Surprisingly, I see a lot of people at Fusion Festival wearing no earplugs at all, and I wonder if these people are aware that this can cause irreversible damage to their ears, and that as they get older, their hearing will deteriorate dramatically, potentially leading to deafness. I believe it is the organization's responsibility to inform the public of the risks to their ears' health. Nowhere on Fusion Festival can you get dB filter earplugs; the only option is some kind of Orophax earplugs, but those earplugs severely muffle the sound, making it impossible to fully enjoy and appreciate the music.

I'd also like to point out that high frequency tones, not low frequency tones, are primarily responsible for hearing damage. Reducing the number of bass in the sound system has little effect on ear protection.

So, to summarize, this is what I propose. Fusion reconsiders the end fire cardiod subwoofer arrays and returns to the Funktion One sound system at the Turmbühne plus the Tanzwüste 2018 set-up and advise people to wear dB filter earplugs when dancing and Orophax earplugs when sleeping. Kulturkosmos should ensure that dB filter earplugs and Orophax earplugs are sold at all stages, while also informing attendees about the dangers of not wearing earplugs. And everyone in Lärz and the surrounding areas should get free Orophax. They really work.

Of course, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and start a conversation. I am aware that, in addition to the protection argument, there could be several other reasons for this sound system & set-up & change (regulations, government policy, maybe even money). But I’d be delighted to hear them. I'm willing to come to Lärz to persuade you of my ideas and brainstorm awareness campaigns with you because the Fusion sound experience is very important to me. As an audiophile, I'm convinced that a stunning and intense sound and bass experience is inextricably linked to the connection of people on the dance floor, and that it's the most important factor in creating a mesmerizing overall party and festival experience.

With love and looking very much forward to your reply,

Frank Lameijer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands"
Zuletzt geändert von flameijer am Di 4. Jul 2023, 12:07, insgesamt 3-mal geändert.
vahraone
Beiträge: 67
Registriert: Mi 6. Jul 2016, 17:55

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von vahraone »

Iroh96 hat geschrieben: Mo 3. Jul 2023, 19:12 Da bin ich ganz deiner Meinung.
Bei Ben Klock hatte ich bei der Turmbühne sogar bei manchen Übergängen das Gefühl, dass der natürliche Anlagensound minimal verzerrt war und ein Knarzen herauszuhören war...
Das stimmt die Anlage war katastrophal eingestellt wir standen ca 10 m von den Boxen entfernt und es hat sich angehört als käme der Sound aus einem 1993 stereo Fernseher ...im Camp 300 Meter entfernt hat es sich wohl besser angehört 😆
vahraone
Beiträge: 67
Registriert: Mi 6. Jul 2016, 17:55

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von vahraone »

Iroh96 hat geschrieben: Mo 3. Jul 2023, 19:12 Da bin ich ganz deiner Meinung.
Bei Ben Klock hatte ich bei der Turmbühne sogar bei manchen Übergängen das Gefühl, dass der natürliche Anlagensound minimal verzerrt war und ein Knarzen herauszuhören war...
Ja war auch so gerade in der ersten 30 min
Schmusesuse
Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Do 23. Sep 2021, 15:03

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von Schmusesuse »

Ben Klock war echt mies. Habe mir dann sagen lassen, dass es da wohl Probleme mit seinem Mixer gab. Ansonsten habe ich die Turmbühne wieder mal sehr genossen. Ist halt auch n riesen floor und wenn man irgendwo hinten links steht ist es halt nicht mehr ganz so drückend. <Tanzwüste ist wesentlich kleiner und nur richtig gut vor dem rechten Tower (da wo die Bässe stehen). Links ist es dann schon vom Klang her nicht mehr so ausgewogen. meine 5 cents :)
fuchteldreher
Beiträge: 38
Registriert: Di 26. Jun 2018, 10:51

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von fuchteldreher »

Ich kann eure Meinung tatsächlich absolut nicht teilen was die Turmbühne angeht. Für mich ist die Lambda das beste, vor dem ich je getanzt hab. Die Einstellung der Anlage war dieses Jahr evtl etwas unterschiedlich, was die Seiten angeht. Ausgehend von dem, was ihr so erzählt, hört es sich für mich an, als hättet ihr hauptsächlich rechts neben der Bar getanzt. Da war der Sound tatsächlich nicht immer voll und wenig Bass lästig. Wir waren deswegen immer links und absolut begeistert.
Die Tanzwüste war tatsächlich sehr stark und ich hab sehr lange nach den subwoofern suchen müssen, weil ich einfach nicht verstanden hab, wo die sein sollen, wenn die so eine Wucht erzeugen - welche tatsächlich manchmal etwas grenzwertig war. Da war die Turmbühne deutlich ausgewogener. Da der Kulturkosmos wohl die Lambda Anlage gekauft hat, wird es dort nicht so schnell ne neue geben. Als Vergleich wäre eine Funktion an der Tanzwüste mal wieder ein schönes Wiedersehen.
plissk3n
Beiträge: 197
Registriert: Di 15. Nov 2011, 16:48

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von plissk3n »

fuchteldreher hat geschrieben: Di 4. Jul 2023, 12:48 Da der Kulturkosmos wohl die Lambda Anlage gekauft hat, wird es dort nicht so schnell ne neue geben.
Woher kommt die Info?
wasauchimmer
Beiträge: 89
Registriert: Di 20. Feb 2018, 17:15

Re: Anlage Tanzwüste vs. Turmbühne

Beitrag von wasauchimmer »

Mir war die Tanzwüste zu heftig, hat sich für mich nur wie dröhnen auf den Ohren angefühlt. Bei Gregor Thresher bin ich recht schnell geflüchtet.
Rootsbase ist zwar absolut heftig, finde ich aber trotzdem irgendwie angenehmer.
Gesperrt