Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Chimay
Beiträge: 106
Registriert: Mo 11. Apr 2022, 12:21

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von Chimay »

What in your opinion has now the best Soundsystem in Europe?
As you said, Fusion is no longer no. 1
Testbild
Beiträge: 103
Registriert: Mi 22. Sep 2021, 22:14

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von Testbild »

Imo this is not a manufacturer thing. Turmbühne at planet C 2021 was the single best sound experience I ever had on a big stage, and they had a lambda with a very similar setup to this year.

Turmbühne this year was worse than 2021, but way better than 2019. And I suspect this is not due to sound system choice but rather due to noise pollution (audio engineers correct me on this) and them being very careful with audio levels . It felt like several stages changed in loudness depending on the day and time, maybe because different weather conditions allowed for different levels of noise pollution for the people in lärz and between floors. 2021 they only had 1 big stage and thus probably did not need to worry so much.

Tanzwüste this year was mellower than the Funktion one previously but very good for something with a Banana stack and non function/void/lambda/fancy horn bass speakers.
Bachstelzen had a function one if I saw correctly and that was very nicely tuned.

BTW if you want earth shaking bass the roots base is your friend
flameijer
Beiträge: 20
Registriert: Do 7. Jul 2022, 22:19

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von flameijer »

Chimay hat geschrieben: Fr 8. Jul 2022, 17:07 What in your opinion has now the best Soundsystem in Europe?
As you said, Fusion is no longer no. 1
Hi Chimay,

Good point, and you challenged me to reconsider. In retrospect, I have now rewritten this part in my letter because I was too rough in drawing this conclusion. Fusion may not have lost it yet, but I think it is in jeopardy. What I mean is that the sound at the Turmbühne is too quiet, but its deserves the best sound system at the festival since it is the biggest stage and the ground zero of Fusion Festival. The psy trance stage, for example, sounds better right now with the L' Acoustics system.

In terms of other festivals, you could argue that Boom Festival also provides an incredible sound experience.
vitaketamine
Beiträge: 87
Registriert: Do 23. Jun 2016, 20:24

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von vitaketamine »

I think Lamdba Labs is superior to F1. And many agree. However, Turmbühne nor Tanzwüste can't unlock the full potential due to noise limitations.

That means, F1 will run into the same underwhelming bass level as LL since they just can't tune it any louder. Bachstelzen had a F1 and after midnight you could have a chat with someone 3m away from you because it was that quiet. During day it was great indeed.
WhatAboutLove
Beiträge: 7
Registriert: Di 3. Jul 2018, 13:16

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von WhatAboutLove »

flameijer hat geschrieben: Fr 8. Jul 2022, 14:41 Hi Fisionista's,

as an audiophile I deeply care about the sound experience at one of the biggest love of my life: Fusion Festival. This is my letter to the Fusion Festival organizers in order to start a conversation about the sound system of their two largest dance floors: the famous and infamous Turmbühne and Tanzwüste. I decided to post this letter on this forum because I am very interested in your opinion and would like to start a conversation with you.

Here is the letter and I'm very looking forward to your reply:)

"To:
Martin Eulenhaupt
Kulturkosmos Müritz e.V.
Am Flugplatz 17248, Lärz, DEUTSCHLAND

Subject: Let’s talk about the sound system at Turmbühne & Tanzwüste


Dear Kulturkosmos, dear Martin, dear Eule,

Finally, after three years of unfulfilled desire to party, create and connect, the Fusion rocket has launched again. It’s hard to describe my feelings about the Fusion Festival of this year but if I could summarize it in one word then that would be mesmerizing. I would like to thank you and Kulturkosmos for organizing the Fusion again and putting all the love and effort into in. All the Kulturkosmos crewmembers and Fusion volunteers are a true inspiration.

Along with my words of gratitude, I'd like to bring something to your and the festival's attention. Therefore, I'd like to return to 2015, to my first Fusion Festival.

I remember it like it was yesterday. For the first time in my life, all five of my senses were intensely stimulated at the same time. My eyes were treated to the most insane stages, decoration, and art installations; I tasted the best vegetarian food; my nose enjoyed the smell of burning wood in the open fireplaces; my ears were treated to the best Berlin melodic techno; and my touch was intensely stimulated by the Funktion One sound system's bass. In this letter, I'd like to elaborate on the last one, which I believe has been deteriorating over the last two Fusions.

Like mentioned before, in 2015, I was astounded and impressed as I had never been before after hearing and feeling the first bass sound on the Turmbühne. I've been to many top-notch festivals, but nowhere else have I heard such audio pornography as at the Turmbühne (and later the Tanzwüste). Every single vein and cell in my body vibrated and the Funktion One sound system reminded me that my body is made up of 80% water.

A good quality sound system, in my opinion, combines two things: you must hear every detail of the music while also physically feeling it. Funktion One perfectly combines these two elements: crystal clear hearing and intense bass sensation. It is, in my opinion (maybe together with L’Acoustics) the only sound system that can hypnotize an entire dance floor of thousands of people and truly make them one with the music, rather than just the people in front of the speakers. The Funktion One sound system makes you feel and touch the music, vibrating and touching every cell in your body for the ultimate party experience. For this reason, the bass must fuck.

Unfortunately, I must conclude that the sound level at Fusion has become less intense since 2019 and that there is a significant lack of intense bass feeling around the dancefloor when compared to the Funktion One sound system that I heard in 2015, 2016, and 2018. The D&B line array combined with the 32 Prior Sounds Single 18 subwoofers on the Tanzwüste this year sounded amazing, but it simply did not come close to the sound I heard on the Tankwüste in 2018 with the Funktion One 12x F221 8-ohm bass wall. But my main concern is with the Turmbühne because you can't feel the bass and can hear people's conversations even when standing in the sweet spot. The new dance arena with the tribunes looks amazing, but there was never a truly intense party going on, so I became curious as to why Fusion changed a winning team.

In order to obtain some answers, I started doing some research and learned that a different and less intense sound system was chosen at the Turmbühne and Tanzwüste to protect the Lärz neighbors and those camping near the stages. As a result, a Lamba Labs end fire cardiod subwoofer array was chosen this year at the Turmbühne. I understand the arguments for using such a system due to the noise pollution, but it is simply too quiet to hypnotize a full dancefloor and lacks the bass feeling that I experienced with a point source Funktion One sound system. The audio sweet spot on this system is simply too small, resulting in a less intense and crazy party on the dancefloor where people go completely bananas.

With a heavy audiophile heart, I have to say that Fusion's position as Europe's best audio experience festival is in jeopardy as a result of this new sound approach. But I'd like to propose a solution in which it's safe and responsible to return to the Funktion One sound system. And that is to advise all Fusionista’s to wear ear protection while dancing and sleeping, and that Kulturkosmos should make it easy to purchase such ear protection throughout the venue.

Since I started going to Fusion, I've always worn earplugs while dancing and sleeping. I wear filter earplugs with a 15-decibels sound filter during dancing and while sleeping, I wear an Orophax earplug, which completely blocks out my hearing. I'm sure the Lamda Lab sound system at the Turmbühne sounds better without earplugs, but I think it's extremely irresponsible not to wear earplugs at Fusion Festival in general. Please see the following table of decibels versus the amount of time it takes to cause irreversible hearing damage if you do not wear ear protection:

92 dB: after 30 minutes hear damage
95 dB: after 15 minutes hear damage
100 dB: after 5 minutes hear damage
110 dB: direct hear damage
120 dB: direct hear damage

For reference, a heavy truck passing by is approximately 89 dB. The decibels level at music festivals in the Netherlands is allowed to go up to 103 dB. The Dutch government assumed hearing protection when developing this 103 dB standard. Because the Netherlands is so densely populated, noise pollution is common. Anything above 110 dB is therefore illegal. That is why, unlike Fusion, no Dutch festivals really generate that audio experience. As a result, I always travel to less densely populated countries, such as Germany, to attend techno festivals where decibel levels can reach 120-130 dB.

My estimation is that the level at Fusion is around 110 dB. As a result, people should protect their hearing by wearing ear protection. Surprisingly, I see a lot of people at Fusion Festival wearing no earplugs at all, and I wonder if these people are aware that this can cause irreversible damage to their ears, and that as they get older, their hearing will deteriorate dramatically, potentially leading to deafness. I believe it is the organization's responsibility to inform the public of the risks to their ears' health. Nowhere on Fusion Festival can you get filter earplugs; the only option is some kind of Orophax earplugs, but those earplugs severely muffle the sound, making it impossible to fully enjoy and appreciate the music.

I'd also like to point out that high frequency tones, not low frequency tones, are primarily responsible for hearing damage. Reducing the number of bass in the sound system has little effect on ear protection.

So, to summarize, this is what I propose. Fusion reconsiders the end fire cardiod subwoofer arrays and returns to the Funktion One sound system at the Turmbühne plus the Tanzwüste 2018 set-up and advise people to wear filter earplugs when dancing and Orophax earplugs when sleeping. Kulturkosmos should ensure that filter earplugs and Orophax earplugs are sold at all stages, while also informing attendees about the dangers of not wearing earplugs. And everyone in Lärz and the surrounding areas should get free Orophax. They really work.

Of course, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and start a conversation. I am aware that, in addition to the protection argument, there could be several other reasons for this sound set-up & design change (regulations, government policy, maybe even money). But I’d be delighted to hear them. I'm willing to come to Lärz to persuade you of my ideas and brainstorm awareness campaigns with you because the Fusion sound experience is very important to me. As an audiophile, I'm convinced that a stunning and intense sound and bass experience is inextricably linked to the connection of people on the dancefloor, and that it's the most important factor in creating an amazing overall party and festival experience.

With love and looking very much forward to your reply,



Frank Lameijer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands"
Thanks for raising the awareness of hearing damage and hearing protection! Very useful information! Thanks!
ronti
Beiträge: 34
Registriert: Di 5. Jun 2018, 09:59

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von ronti »

Maybe the Best solution for tantwüste is
High and mid range: lambda labs
Mid Bass range: wall of lambda labs
Low bass range: wall of Kirsch audio

The 2016 setup with Funktion one in High & mid range and Funktion one for mid Bass and Kirsch Audio for Low Bass really really really kicked my ass.
Solidariteit2017
Beiträge: 10
Registriert: Mo 4. Jul 2022, 22:48

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von Solidariteit2017 »

WhatAboutLove hat geschrieben: Sa 9. Jul 2022, 07:16 Thanks for raising the awareness of hearing damage and hearing protection! Very useful information! Thanks!
I was amazed at how few people had hearing protection, in the Netherlands it feels like a lot more people use hearing protection.
ligi
Beiträge: 62
Registriert: Sa 19. Dez 2015, 19:28
Wohnort: Berlin
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von ligi »

The sound at RootsBase was best this year - way superior to TurmBühne! 2 real nice SoundSystems (Dandelion+Jah Chalice) in end fire setup was just fire - never heard such a nice sound before.
Schmusesuse
Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Do 23. Sep 2021, 15:03

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von Schmusesuse »

come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these levels, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?
Zuletzt geändert von Schmusesuse am Sa 9. Jul 2022, 12:26, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Cosmo030
Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Mo 1. Jul 2013, 15:20

Re: Let's talk about the sound system at the Turmbühne & Tanzwüste: solution to bring Funktion One back

Beitrag von Cosmo030 »

Schmusesuse hat geschrieben: Sa 9. Jul 2022, 12:05 come on guys, in the past during nighttime you had NO level at all at Turmbühne. it was superboring and every artist who had to play at night knew it will be not a highlight. Now it is even during nighttime a pleasure. Last year the lambda could play louder at turmbühne because there were only 4 stages with these planet events. Now during night, the whole emission from 30 stages is being measured by walking around measuring guys. when level is exceeded, FOH people pull levels down. hard but fair. so isn't it an great achievement to play at least at these level, which are still great to perform and dance, during night? of course we can go back to groundshaking bass arrays like in the past during daytime..and in the night we just leave out the big stages like I always did in the night and seeking the small ones, because it was so boring on the big. imagine lambda would just take their 50 subs from this time and make such a wall or tower like f1 did in the past. do you really think it would not work. Really? it is a changed concept. maybe a more up-to-date one, to achieve more goals at once and to satisfy more people in the end?

This
Gesperrt